In-Depth Interview: Pricing Your Boudoir Photography to Boost Sales With Sivan Rettew

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Join us in this week’s interview with Mastermind student Sivan Rettew who was able to gross 275k by the end of December 2019. Sivan was able to achieve this level of success by making her price list stronger and more sustainable. Wondering how you should be pricing your boudoir photography?

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About Jenn Bruno Smith:

After leaving a successful career as a ​speech ​pathologist and clinical liaison, ​Jenn moved into pursuing her business full time. ​She has been shooting boudoir exclusively for 4 year​s​ and teaching marketing and business to the photography industry​ for the last two.

Jenn is a featured educator in the Do More Forum and AIBP. She is a guest blogger for Skip Cohen University and her work has been featured on Fstoppers. ​Jenn enjoys mentoring other photographers and teaching them her ninja business ways​. She also enjoys ​spending time with her family and ​three small children,​ as well as sleeping (when she finds the time).

You can catch up with Jenn in her group The High Rollers Club- IPS, Business and Marketing for Boudoir photographers

About Sivan Rettew:

Sivan Rettew is the owner of Lovely in Lace based in Orlando, Florida. She’s been a professional photographer since 2009, and strives to constantly learning how to improve. You can view her work here:

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:00:01] Hey guys, Jenn Bruno Smith here! I am here with Sivan Rettew of Lovely in Lace. You’re based out of, I always say this wrong, Ocoee.. No.

Sivan Rettew: [00:00:12] Ocoee.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:00:21] Right outside of Orlando.

Sivan Rettew: [00:00:22] Yes!

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:00:24] You have been a photographer for how many years now?

Sivan Rettew: [00:00:28] I say since 2009 but my husband swears 2008. So whichever.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:00:33] Yes. We’ve been going for about the same time. That’s when I started to. I don’t know. Yeah. I started in 2009. I mean, I wasn’t very good, but that’s when I started. Oh, God, no.

Sivan Rettew: [00:00:42] You don’t want to see my beginning pictures are highly embarrassing.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:00:46] We all start somewhere. I started with like vignettes and selective coloring and like all kinds of like oversaturation and Lightroom. I was really big on like making skin tones really gray. And then everything else, like super saturated.

Sivan Rettew: [00:01:04] I made things orange and I put this weird black border around all my photos. And I got really creative by adding like a layer of words on top of my photos.

Sivan Rettew: [00:01:18] Making it look like so vintage, I guess. I don’t know. My photography might’ve been better had my editing not totally screwed up.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:01:25] Yeah, save, save. All new photographers go through this trend of like starting a playroom oversaturated. Then they discover photoshop. Oh my gosh. I can put like layers on here. And then, like, it starts here. And then and then you, like, go down the other side where you’re like, OK, I need to actually make this look not so contrived and then you start going back the other way.

Sivan Rettew: [00:01:49] So I think what most photographers go through, I feel like it’s yeah, it’s like how as a teenager you have to wear purple lipstick or purple eyeshadow to be considered having gone through the teenage years.

Sivan Rettew: [00:02:01] Not some other awkward phase.  And here I am so wearing purple. Actually, I wore purple. It’s really been my best like conduct now.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:02:13] So. So you were. So you started like 2009 and then what did you start shooting?

Sivan Rettew: [00:02:20] Engagements and family were like my jam at the beginning. And it was literally my very first session was a couple friend of mine, like husband and wife, already married. But I’m like, you take off your wedding rings, just the engagement ring, cause we’re going to do an engagement shoot. That was my very first photo shoot.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:02:36] I love that. That’s great.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:02:42] I did. My first shoot was, it was a married couple. And I made it look like an engagement shoot, too. Again, I think something that most photographers do like trying to like get as many genres in there as you can.

Sivan Rettew: [00:02:54] Fake it till you make it. That’s what I live by.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:02:57] Absolutely. So. Well, what’s like the biggest mistake that you made is like a new photographer, Lee Green, right out of the gate suit on.

Sivan Rettew: [00:03:04] So easy, actually. Surprise me. And actually, my client is the one who made me realize this. Like she verbalize it, right. She hired me for like a birthday party for her kid. And I think it was like the first thing that I had been hired for. They didn’t pay any deposit or anything about to know anything about that. And then they canceled on me like a few hours before. And she said, I’m so sorry to do this. I’ll be happy to, like, pay you something. Just since you didn’t take a deposit. I’m like, yeah, that would be really great. Thank you. And she never did.

Sivan Rettew: [00:03:41] And so after that, thankfully, it was really early on. So I could learn early. Like need to take a non-refundable deposit. I’m not dealing with this.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:03:51] So did you start in I.P.S or did you? And so for our listeners that are kind of new to photography. I.P.S is in person sales. So there’s really like the two ways. Right.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:04:01] There’s like shoot and burn or shoot and share where you take the pictures and then you give them all the files or I.P.S or in-person sales where you do the shoot and then you have a sales session or ordering payment after where the client are purchases. So did you start right with I.P.S or do you started like a hybrid?

Sivan Rettew: [00:04:18] Well, I literally never knew anything about I.P.S until maybe five years ago. It’s like some I knew of a concept for me, which is amazing. You know, I started I just burned disks and I even burned. I don’t remember what was called where you could burn their photos on top of it. Really fun!

Sivan Rettew: [00:04:41] So that’s what I did. If I did discs until I learned how to until I learned that there’s like pixie set and things like that right up to that and send it to them, right. RJ Like five hundred dollars for a session, all inclusive. And then I finally years ago was like. To see what I.P.S is all about. Everybody’s raving about how much money you can make with it. So let’s see. So I brought in my clients who had already paid five hundred already were getting all of their photos and they said that like maybe a hundred dollars extra. And I’m like this. I guess is been flooded.

Sivan Rettew: [00:05:19] You know, people are talking about anything that was not worth my time.

Sivan Rettew: [00:05:24] Stressful. Like I don’t know how to sell. Like I’m not a salesman. Right. And I would even show them a product and I would literally tell them, but you have to get it. I would just totally screw my sale because I was so uncomfortable with it. Yeah. And I thought you had to be a salesman.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:05:44] Right! The biggest misconception of I.P.S. is that you have to sell. If your work is good, it sounds itself. There’s no reason to sell.

Sivan Rettew: [00:05:53] And not just the work. That’s actually I feel like even a smaller portion of it. I think it’s crazy. Right. Right. How am I going to upsell them after they’ve already spent only $500 to get everything. They’re not going to pay for me to give them a $400 canvas and they can go do it themselves.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:06:12] Absolutely! The pricing is huge. And then also the experience that the clients are getting is huge too. And how they value you and your work. So. So you went from OK, see, you were doing kind of like a shooting bar and then you kind of did like a hybrid where you dipped your toes into I.P.S. You’re like, this really sucks. And then what was what was your next step after that? You went back to shoot?

Sivan Rettew: [00:06:38] Oh, yeah, I went back through. It’s like this is not worth my time. The anxiety button. And then I didn’t even touch I.P.S. Again until I started mentorships everywhere.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:06:52] Ok. So you did like family attorney and then you switched to weddings first?

Sivan Rettew: [00:06:59] Yeah. So I did it pretty early on. I never did it the right way. Where you like, follow your shadow, people, you second shoe. I. I think I made a second shot one for my entire wedding career. And that was just to help a friend. It wasn’t because I needed like the experience or anything. Pretty far in my window. I ruined everything. So. Yeah. All right. You do. And it worked until it did more like until I realized that this isn’t sustainable and I’m not making as much as clearly I can. Based on all these Facebook pages that are now part of that, I never knew listed. And it’s like I just slowly got added more and more groups. Michael, what people are making a hundred thousand dollars. People are making $50000. You know, like it just. Right. All of that was so mind-blowing to me. And now, just like all of you here, I was just missing out because I didn’t even know that mentorships existed for any category. Photography in general.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:08:00] It’s funny because like, you know, we run ads for the High Rollers Club and inevitably almost every single day there is someone that will post on their photographers making four thousand dollar sales this is bullshit. And I’ll be like, really? You need to find a new circle then.

Sivan Rettew: [00:08:18] Exactly. It can’t be the smartest one in the room.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:08:21] Right. Right. I like that. So what made you start to shoot boudoir? What inspired you to do it?

Sivan Rettew: [00:08:30] So I had a client for a bride who had asked me to do her 12 hour session. Actually, I had completely forgotten about this all these years. When people ask me this question, I’m like, honestly, don’t remember. Right. And then she came back for a second session and she’s like, don’t you remember I had asked you and you said, no. Oh, that’s great. She asked me if I would do these sexy photos for her. And I’m like, that sounds cool, but I don’t do it and I don’t want to screw that up. So help you find somebody. She said, no, I want you to do it. So I looked into it. I went and did my own. So I could really understand what it felt like on the other side of the camera first. You can’t tell somebody. It’s no big deal. It’s it’s OK. I must do it first. Right. And then I started doing the bare bones in hotel rooms and that I think I did like two or three a year, I was booked maybe six girls in a day. Right. And charge like a couple hundred dollars. I walked out of it out of six sessions. I’m like, I made $800, which is more than you were making before.

Sivan Rettew: [00:09:42] I thought that was huge. I was just get my husband to be like, oh, my God, this is amazing.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:09:48] And now you get three or four thousand dollars sells. And like it was just another day.

Sivan Rettew: [00:09:51] Yeah like now I’m sad if I make less than three thousand, which is so awful to say, but you get used to things.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:09:59] You know what’s funny? My husband and I like when I shot families and even when I first started shooting good were we like I would have a sound and then if it was a good sale like even what I considered a good sale, like eight hundred two thousand dollars. And this was like back in 2012, 2013.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:10:15] I would call him and tell him would you like to play my favorite game? And I would like making gas. So my sale was now like, I don’t even tell him, like unless I sell my eight thousand dollar collection, I’ll even tell him that’s if I call and I’m like, Hey. And he’ll be like, I like the way you sound.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:10:35] And then I would be like, it was a good one huh? And then that’s it. And then we’re like, okay are you getting dinner or am I getting dinner?

Sivan Rettew: [00:10:41] It’s just so normal.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:10:42] Yes. Like a normal part of the job now. Yeah. So you started doing marathons and then and then you started like really gangsters. What was your revenue like? So what, you’re reshooting weddings and like before you really started into boudoir?

Sivan Rettew: [00:11:00] Oh, boy. 2014 yeah, maybe something like that. Let’s see, one, two, three, four. Maybe even earlier. Maybe 2012, 2013 is when I really started trickling in boudoir. But at that time, I never would possibly have occurred to me that you could pick one genre other than weddings, right? A good living from it. So in my mind, I had to do all the things newborns, which I did not like to do. I went, but I don’t like to photograph them. Say on product photography. Anything anyone would paint for. Same things. And then you. And then I just started doing more and more of the more marathons and getting more people requesting them. And I got really, really, really sick of the hotel scene I’ve ever done the hotel thing.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:11:57] So I’ve gotten Airbnb’s and like I’ve done marathons and I thought I wanted to die. And I actually did it. I rented an Airbnb and like a bed and breakfast in central PA. Because that’s where we’re from. So I had like a large, like base of connections and relationships. And I shot five in a day. And of course, I chose to do it in late November, where the days are shorter than what I was thinking. So I started shooting, you know, like at like eight or nine. And the floors were like that orange pine. And I had so many like color cast. But anyway, so that was like my last I was like, twenty, seventeen. I haven’t done it since. Oh well that was recent though. Yeah. Oh no. Yeah. I’ve only started shooting. I started shooting boudoir in twenty sixteen.

Sivan Rettew: [00:12:52] Okay. On similar timelines. You figured it out way sooner than I did.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:12:58] As were’ talking I’m like oh yeah I did that. Yep. I did that too.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:13:03] What were you doing in 2017?

Sivan Rettew: [00:13:07] Ok. I’m looking at my numbers here because I’m kind of falling in numbers. 2017. I was trying really hard to book the crap out of boudoir sessions. That is about a year when I really, really wanted to go full force with it. Right. And specific. We actually do remember that. That’s the year my son was born and I knew that I have to take some time off. Right. I didn’t to lose out on those sessions, so I started trying to hire people and I hired a couple of people. It worked out well. It worked out. And then it got less than ideal. And. It just wasn’t working for any of us, like just the whole situation that we put together just wasn’t working out, so that ended and I had really thought that I could look more like I did at one point, stupidly promised them, which I think was one of the big issues I promised them. I can get you X amount of sessions per month. And it was a loose promise. They felt confident even though I had no strategy yet. Have a private Facebook group that I remember. I don’t think I did. Yeah. I didn’t really like I did newsletters, but it was really strategic. They just nothing. Everything was just like willy nilly, like what I really thought of. I just applied and hoped for the best. Right. So in two thousand sixteen I had 60 sessions. In 2017, I had forty three because Landon was born. I had to cut down drastically for that. Right. And I’m like I like I have to still do weddings. I have to still do all these things because there’s no way I can just do this right.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:14:53] And how much did you make? What was your gross in 2017?

Sivan Rettew: [00:14:58] 2017 was from boudoir alone was forty eight thousand which actually is pretty good considering I was before I knew what I was doing. Right. And my pricing was like I think it started at seven fifty was my session fee. Which now come up really high. But then they could get like a bunch of stuff for only a little bit more. So remarks that somebody would really be able to spend most like eighteen hundred dollars, I’d realize. I’m like, I’m capping myself. I don’t know how to not count myself. I don’t know how to do this.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:15:31] So in 2017 you shot like 43 sessions and your gross was like forty eight. So you were averaging about a little over a thousand for a session. So how about in 2018? What was that like for you?

Sivan Rettew: [00:15:50] Ok so 2018 about midway through that year. Not even midway. I decided to invest in myself for pretty much the first time ever in photography because I had heard about a different program. And I’m like you know what. What I’m doing is not working. And I know it’s a big investment, but I do it. And my husband and I have always I think I saw you write something recently about this, too. Craig and I we’re not stupid risk takers to do things that we know are just so out of our control. But we take risks that we know we can have some form of control over and they’re educated risks for the most part. And we know that the success from it can far outweigh the failure from it. Right. So like even opening the studio was absolutely terrifying just to kind of rewind it. I did the hotel room thing. I got super tired of it because I had to deal with their check in and check out time so they wouldn’t let me check in in time. And I literally have girls like piling up and we’d be sitting in the lobby and with the hours behind. Right. We found the space. And I mean, it’s really damn expensive like at this point. Now it goes up every year. We’re paying about $3000 a month. The same. Yeah. And so we said either we do it and find out that it doesn’t work. And if we try it or we don’t do it and we stay where we are and I don’t get to do the thing that I really want to do. Right. So that was a big risk. But we when you had to take it right. So obviously, however many years later, six, seven years later, it’s going well.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:17:37] So 2017 you were like forty three clients. Forty eight thousand gross in 2018. How much was your gross in 2018? And you started a mentorship program in twenty eighteen.

Sivan Rettew: [00:17:54] So it was one hundred twenty three thousand.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:18:02] But then what were you struggling with? So you definitely had like a large difference in your gross but what were you struggling with?

Sivan Rettew: [00:18:09] Still I felt capped. So the way that this program had structured the pricing while it was significantly more than what I was doing beforehand. And it was working really, really well for me, just the way that the pricing was structured. It kind of it just kept me like I think the most that a client could pay me was like three or four thousand, which is great. But I wanted to make seven or eight thousand, you know, was more me. And I didn’t know how. Like, I I was just following the program, just like I do with you. Like, I just follow the steps. And making changes is risky because I don’t know the right changes to make. So, I mean, not to touch what you do. And I just try to follow it as is. So that’s what I was doing with the other program, too. So I just felt pop and I also felt like I needed to do a different system.

Sivan Rettew: [00:19:01] As far as getting clients right and having a sustainable system, I guess, yeah, I think that that’s one of the best things about our program, is that it is a sustainable business model. And I’m saying that because I’ve been doing it. And so I know that it works because this is you know, I just I’m a second year making over half a million. And the year before that, I made two eighty. But I was also working a full time job. So, I mean. So then you found us in 2019. And you know, you were looking for to increase your sales average, increase your gross revenue and to bring more people in. Those were like the struggles. Why you found us.

Sivan Rettew: [00:19:44] Yeah. Actually one of my friends who was also in the program with the program with me, she had mentioned you guys who could. So she had mentioned the price. She was specifically actually talking about Humberto at first. Yeah. I actually heard about Humberto before I heard about you specifically. Yeah. And she was mentioning his side of things and I’m just like what? And it was scary. But then of course I ruined it. And I looked at my history and I’m like, okay. Historically. You’re good at trusting your guy, that you succeed at the things that you do because you work your ass off when you do them right and you make the right decision. It’s not like I’m paying for a program that the mentor isn’t. And this was even the one before. Mentors have been available for the most part. And it’s not just like an online course where you just follow them, but you have no one to talk to, you know? Q And A’s are very hands on programs and then there’s very hands off programs. So I would never look at the hands off ones because those are the ones that I just. So in school, time goes up in school. I was always like I needed to be in class in the front row to be able to focus and really retain the information. If I had friends who could do really, really well in online courses, right. I was not that person. Like I like horses for me where I can’t ask questions immediately. I never worked for me. And so that’s why I need this kind of thing. Was really successful as far as how I viewed it. Yeah. So in 2000, 18 before I joined them in 2019, during the high rollers club. So January to April. Eighty five thousand gross. And then from May to December after the high rollers, Two hundred seventy five thousand.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:21:39] That’s insane. It’s insane. Crazy. How did I not know that. That’s crazy. I knew your gross but like I didn’t know that it was divided like that.

Sivan Rettew: [00:21:53] Yeah. It’s a huge difference. So the total for last year was 360 with boudoir only. We rent the studio too. So that was like a different portion. This is boudoir only.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:22:04] That’s amazing. Yeah. It’s a powerhouse. Incredible. Is your husband just like, oh, my God, I strictly. I had the lottery when I’m in.

Sivan Rettew: [00:22:14] It’s awesome because he’s able to focus on ramping up the things he wants to wrap up, like he quit his job years. I mean, before I even knew that would work to be successful like this. Yeah, I still in the wedding, a family, an engagement game. He quit his job because he saw me working from home and he’s like, I want to do that, too, right? Do what I love. Right. And so since then, he’s been just kind of figuring out what it is he wants to do, testing out the waters and different projects. And so it’s nice because I can support us and he can do what he loves. And I know he’s not going to ever, like have negative feelings towards me for making him go get a 9 to 5 when you never want to.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:22:55] Yeah, the same. My husband quit his job in like March of this year. And our family like home life is so much less stressful because he was working in a really stressful job like he was managing our entire state. Like that? Yeah. Like for physical therapy companies.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:23:13] He was a senior regional director and he had like two hundred employees or something ridiculous. Like he had a lot of stress. And this Christmas was the first Christmas that he didn’t have to worry about meeting the metrics for his other company. And like the one day, even though like, you know, when three kids are off school and they’re all at home with you, it’s a lot of Sharia and guidance, stressful. But we looked at each other at one point and he’s like, this is the first year that I’ve actually enjoyed a holiday because I haven’t worried about what work was going to look like when I went back.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:23:47] And that’s like the gift of owning your own business, right. As you have this flexibility and this freedom that someone in a 9 to 5 doesn’t have. And we never lose sight of that. Like, as, you know, business owner is that it’s that we are very fortunate that we have that flexibility. So it’s amazing the gross the change like from twenty eighteen to twenty nineteen. That’s incredible. So looking forward to twenty twenty. How are your bookings looking for spots left.

Sivan Rettew: [00:24:22] And I don’t know what to do. It’s such a good problem to have. Yeah, that’s amazing.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:24:29] How many are you shooting a week or a month or a week?

Sivan Rettew: [00:24:33] Three a week for the most part. Sometimes I have four.. I know those weeks I’m going to be miserable because I’m an extroverted introvert, I realize. And so I really need my quiet downtime. But this is including the fact that I have given myself a few spontaneous weeks off throughout the year. Right. So I have right now one hundred and twenty five sessions booked for this year.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:25:01] That’s amazing.

Sivan Rettew: [00:25:01] I’m talking to somebody about potentially adding her to the team. It’s like even just one session a week. Right. Possible. Because I hate to turn people away, but I also know my limits. And I know that I don’t want to add more weight or I’ll start getting burnt out.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:25:21] Right. Absolutely. That’s incredible, though. I’m so happy. I’m so happy and just so proud of you. Going from May to December, making what you made like seven months straight. Seven months. You mean how much? Two hundred and eighty.

Sivan Rettew: [00:25:39] Two seventy five.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:25:40] That’s amazing.

Sivan Rettew: [00:25:42] I left with all of pretty much all of December off.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:25:44] That’s like on average about thirty nine thousand dollars a month.

Sivan Rettew: [00:25:49] I like math. Yeah and I took I did two sessions the beginning of December and maybe one I.P.S?

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:26:01] Really it’s in six months.

Sivan Rettew: [00:26:04] Yeah. And talking about how your husband was just so relaxed this break, that was Craig and I. We’re in pajamas like we went on vacation to Tennessee. We got an Airbnb and some days we literally stayed in our pajamas and watched TV and let Landon watch his Ipad because we just knew we worked so hard this year. We deserve it. And we felt so refreshed and ready to hit the ground running again. It was my first day back and it’s just like I feel so ready. My brain is like on fire. I’m ready to go.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:26:40] I love that. I love. I’m so happy for you. So you’re booked out for 2020. So you’ve been on like we’ve our past have kind of mirrored each other like as far as like, ah, you know, photography path’s. So what? What’s some advice? Like what were your biggest mistakes in the beginning? Looking back now, in the beginning of what you’re full photography career, gaslights. Do you have any like crazy mistakes, like looking back or your leg? What was I thinking?

Sivan Rettew: [00:27:09] I mean, I guess you could call them mistakes. It’s just more learning curves like properly pricing ourselves, not having confidence in myself and knowing what I was worth. Yeah, I know that those are really big stakes.

Sivan Rettew: [00:27:24] As much as just like growth, you know that that you want you know that there are photographers watching this right now, kid thinking there’s no way. Thirty nine thousand dollars a month. Like that’s not even possible. That’s what I mean. You know that there are. So I don’t know for sure. So what what would you say to those people? Because like I know when people comment on my ads and they’re like, really? I’m like, oh, my God, I’m going to say this again for the five hundredth time like you. But what would you tell those people that are watching? It’s like there’s no way that’s impossible.

Sivan Rettew: [00:27:58] How she even doing that, a big thing is learning to trust yourself, but also not being fearful of yourself and what you’re what you’re potentials are. So my big thing here. OK, here’s kind of an answer to both the mistakes thing and this question. I never invested in myself as a photographer. I bought equipment, but I never invested in my knowledge. I never did workshops. I never went to conferences like all these things that everyone does yearly. I’m like, no big deal. I’ve got this right. It’s a mistake. Could be that. I just thought I had it all. And I figured it all out myself, if I’m right. Really not making my schedule. I know that like investing in yourself is absolutely terrifying when you don’t know what the outcome is going to be. Right. Well, the thing is that it really shouldn’t be so scary. It should be more exciting because you know that you’re trying to improve yourself as a person and as a business. And what’s going to come out of it will significantly trump what you would have left behind. Like, I don’t know if that makes sense. It made someone.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:29:11] It totally does. And, you know, so I have my masters, my husband’s my dad has his doctorate. And we always talk with this family. We’ve invested so much money in our educations. Right. To go out. Last week, I came out with sixty five thousand dollars in school loans to go out and work a job that I would have to work for 30 years to pay off that school loan. That’s my husband. The same. He went to school for his doctorate and he came out knowing that he was going to have to work 30 years like that school loan. We were we were we were convinced we would never be able to pay it off, that we would carry it until we were sixty five. Right. And no. But you need. You need to invest in yourself in order to. In order to grow. And in order to make changes. And. And that’s what always is mind boggling to me about the photography industry, is people want to get better. They want to make changes, but they don’t want to invest in the facts. They need to do it. They’re willing to go and spend $40000 on a bachelor’s degree. That isn’t going to make any money. It’s it’s crazy to me. I always think about that and like really like is in the grand scheme of things. Like it’s really much, much, too. And which changes.

Sivan Rettew: [00:30:33] Yes. And your program and don’t change the price because I’m saying that people going to be like, would you set up the bar? But your program is really affordable considering the material that you give us. Comparing it to other programs that are significantly more expensive and less hands on. There is so much value in the high rollers club. I mean, just the friggin name speaks for itself. Came up with that.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:30:58] I did it!

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:31:03] You know what’s funny is when you first start. When I first started this. And, you know, I had to start like a square account straight up and pay, pal. Every single one of them called me and was like, what exactly is your business? Because if you’re gambling, we can’t work with you. No, I’m not a gambling business. Thank you so much for jumping on.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:31:27] Do you have any last minute piece of advice for, you know, photographers out there that are ready to make a change? And they’re just kind of scared to do it or scared to jump in?

Sivan Rettew: [00:31:37] So this is just something that I’ve said for a long time when people started asking me. Even with the other program and now with this one, like, how are you successful with it? And what made you feel like you could pay that much money? Like how were you not scared or people to say, I can’t do it, I’ve got too many of this to do and too much of this to do. And I have made all these bills. The pain, it’s like. Well, that’s why you should do it. So anyway, what I want to say is you can either stay where you are doing the things that you’re doing that aren’t working, making a lot less money than you want to make. Or you can pay a mentor who’s already done all that and already figured it out and made the perfect recipe for the perfect meal. And you’re just buying that recipe, you know? Right. And you change your life for the better. And you are so successful. So you have to get out of your own way. And that’s something that I tell you, my clients like, get out of your own way. Get out of your head. Yeah. That’s where the problems are. You’re tricking yourself to believing that this is not going to work, that you as a person can’t possibly make this much money because you are not worth it for some reason.

Sivan Rettew: [00:32:47] You are worth it. And you just need to learn how to value yourself. I’ve said, yeah. So there’s so much that you learn. It’s more than just. It’s more than just marketing. So I’ve had some people ask me, like somebody recently told me. I already have. This is my sales average, which it was like between one to two thousand. And so she said. So I’m good on that part. And I’m good on the I.P.S because I may know she said something like I did I.P.S last year and I made only a thousand dollars. But I really need to know the marketing. Something like that. Yeah. And what I’m like. It sounds like you need way more than the marketing. You need the marketing to attract the right clients. Right. The automations. You need scripts for phone calls. You need I.P.S skills. And you need I.P.S. Her pricing. I mean, there’s so much that goes into it, so much more than just a single thing. And I don’t think people realize how much is really involved in this program that. For the amount of money like you make that back in a couple of sessions.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:33:58] Yeah, I was talking to I was talking to a photographer yesterday. He was like, I’ve got memberships to all kinds of forums and and it’s not working. And I was like, hey, let me tell you why it’s not working, because it’s like someone gave you 10 puzzles with three hundred pieces each and you dumped them all into your living room floor.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:34:19] And you’re trying to make one complete picture with all of those puzzles. I was like, it’s not working. I said, you know, the mastermind is like one puzzle. Yeah, there’s a lot of pieces, but at least you’re not working with like 10 different puzzles, trying to create a texture that’s not going to make sense. Yeah. It’s so important to have like all of the puzzle pieces working. And, you know, I think my my husband’s like from physical therapy world. And he always talks about R&D research and development. And like when he first started talking about that, I was like, mom, like with your abbreviations, really?

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:34:53] But he was talking about like, oh, it’s so true because like, I’m doing R&D every single day and then I’m teaching my students what I’m doing and what’s not working and what worked for me. And so the R&D is like constantly happening because I’m running a full time studio, too.

Sivan Rettew: [00:35:10] So that’s something I’ve been telling people to about. You know, like she’s running home business, killing it. And if you have new ideas, she’d test it out on her own market first. And then if it works, she tells us, like, you don’t just use us as your guinea pigs, some kind of use client. But it doesn’t hurt that. If it was going to hurt anybody, it would be you. And you’re willing to take that risk for the better of yourself and all of your students. So vicious. I mean, we get so much out of you. You know, you’re awesome. Thank you. Yeah. So if you’re thinking of doing this, you just have to just like do it. You just have to get out of your own way. I feel like in life just great.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:35:58] You just gotta. You just gotta do it. You just kind of go for it. It’s better to just jump in cold water than to go in really slow that way, because I’m going back to what you’re saying.

Sivan Rettew: [00:36:09] But all the puzzle pieces from all the different things. Yeah, that’s so. I know that there are so many amazing programs out there. There’s you I know several others that are working really, really well for people. Yeah, but like for me, I wouldn’t hire multiple people at the same time because I’m going to confuse a cop out of myself. I’m an old man myself with too much information. It’s terrible. No. Like I’m going to try to combine this piece with this piece and put them together and it just doesn’t work. You’ve got to commit to one thing. Right. And see it through to the end. Then when you’re ready to move forward and forward by killing it, I’m just like legal aid.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:36:49] Exactly. You said we will. Thank you so much for joining me today. It was so good talking to you and show. Proud of you. I’m so happy for you. Thank you. You’re just killing it over there. You just filling it. All right. Well, tell us your Web site so people can check you out and find you an Instagram, right?

Sivan Rettew: [00:37:09] Yes. OK. So my website is And then my Instagram is lovelyinlace_orlando.

Jenn Bruno Smith: [00:37:24] So thank you so much for coming. You guys want to check out Sivan’s work definitely follow her Instagram. She’s got some gorgeous work. And thank you again for taking the lead and joining us. It’s so good to have you with us and I’m so proud of you.

Sivan Rettew: [00:37:44] Thanks Jenn, I’ll talk to you later!

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